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Expert Answers
Why is Water Suddenly Seeping Through My Tile Grout Joints?
QUESTION
Why is water Suddenly Seeping through my tile grout joints? - I have a question about water seeping up through grout of a tiled floor. This is in South Florida. The tiles are 18" x 18" ceramic. They were installed approximately 10 years ago. Never really had any problems. Recently, the city decided to run a 36" gas line maybe 20' from the back of the house. I am now observing water coming up through the tiles in various locations in the house. In addition, there is white residue staining on many of the grout lines. Could the problem be related to the recent construction? Do you think the floor slab is compromised below the tile? What could be the reasons of this?ANSWER
ANSWER - Water coming up through your tile grout joints is an indication that you have a high water table on your property or that water is being directed towards your house, and you don't have a vapor retarder under the concrete slab to prevent water from migrating through the concrete. The white residue is likely efflorescence which are salt minerals that are absorbed by the water as it travels through the concrete and then when the water evaporates from the grout joint it leaves the white precipitate. Since you said that this wet grout condition didn't occur until after a gas line was installed within 20 feet of the back of your house, it is possible that they either broke some water pipe that is leaking or maybe they did something that prevents the high water table to drain away from your house.
You can dig along side of the foundation and see if there is vapor barrier membrane under the slab and coming up along the side of the slab. There could be one, but somewhere under the slab it could be breeched allowing water to migrate into the concrete slab to some degree. To remediate the problem you can install a French trench drain along the sides of the house so the water drains away from the house.
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Are you aware of any sealant that can be applied on the grout lines that will keep the water from seeping up?
I assume you mean a liquid applied sealer to be applied over cementitious grout joints. No there is no full proof sealer that will make the grout joints waterproof. Sealers will make the grout water resistant.
Grout joints can be filled with sealant (caulking) in lieu of cementitious grout. That could make the grout joint waterproof in theory, but that would not make the tile assembly entirely waterproof.
Good day, I have an outdoor rooftop tile that was recently done in March, over time i noticed the same water issue coming up through the grout lines leaving a white residue. Before installing the tiles we put a base floor penetrating liquid to prevent leaking into the top floor (similar to tar, but clear). There is no other water main or areas for water to enter but through the grout lines and then it forces it way back out forming the white residue. Is my only solution to dig and redo the tiling?
I assume you have a waterproof membrane under the tile assembly either over the roof substrate or perhaps over a mortar bed base to which the tile is bonded directly to.
If the roof deck was not properly designed or installed then water that does migrate through the porous cementitious grout might not have any way to evacuate under the tile, so then the water will evaporate through the grout. As the water evaporates it precipitates minerals that it absorbed from under the tile leaving the efflorescence staining on the grout joint.
In theory as described in this chain of messages, it is possible to remove the grout and let it dry out. Then fill with an ASTM C920 traffic grade sealant per the manufacturer’s directions that in theory will make the grout joints water tight to keep water from getting beneath the tile; as long as there are no other openings on the deck that would allow water to enter.
So will the ASTM C920 replace the sanded grout ? Or will the grout application go over it after applying the sealant?
The ASTM C920 sealant is in lieu of the cementitious grout. It has to be a resilient joint without the rigid cementitious grout.
Dear Sir,
My fiancee and I are purchasing a home in the Carrollwood region of Tampa, FL. A buyer’s inspection and subsequent professional evaluation indicate moisture readings of up to 99 percent moisture in the slab foundation throughout the home. For the previous owners, this caused rust stains on carpets wherever metal furniture was positioned. Even the few tiles that were installed at the time of construction (1981) indicate moisture readings as high as 60 percent. My service professional said his home, which is aside a lake, has the same readings, and it’s not a problem as long as you match your flooring choice to your foundation — in this case, his recommendation is a breathable tile and grout. Can you advise as to what sort of tile and grout would be appropriate? Do I need a sealant in/over the grout? He recommended at least 1/4 inch grout lines to maximize breathability, but said efflourescence will likely continue regardless. I’d be grateful for your insight – the folks at the tile stores give me blank stares when I discuss this issue with them. Many thanks.
99 percent relative humidity readings is practically a wet surface if in fact it was tested per the ASTM F2170 protocol. No manufacture would recommend to put any type of floor covering over it.
Ceramic tile would be the most resistant to moisture but it would not be recommended. What is recommended for this condition is to first install an epoxy vapor barrier over the existing concrete slab after it has been properly prepared. Use a type of product where you can then adhere the tile directly over the vapor barrier with a thin-set mortar.
Mr. Donato:
PLEASE I NEED YOUR HELP’. Water is seeping through in my hall with tile floors through the bottom of the baseboard. Then, the leak stops until the shower is used in the adjoining bathroom. The house is in Central Florida, and it was built in 1971. We called the plumber and he said that most likely there is a pipe problem in the slab under
the house; we should call a company that charges $310.00 to detect where the problem is or at least 1 foot away from the leak. We also contacted the utility company and they said that the water meter does not indicate any type of leak. The plumber said this will cost thousands of dollars to repair the leak. MONEY IS AN ISSUE. What to do next? I thought of putting some kind of sealant under the baseboard; it looks like the grout is missing. Any suggestions?
Thank you ever so much!
Based on your description it appears the water leak is coming from the shower since it only occurs after the shower is used in the adjacent room. If it was a slab leak then your leak would be continuous.
Water leaks are normally covered under Home Owner insurance policies. I would call your insurance carrier and report that you have a leak and want to make a claim. Ask them how to proceed.
If the shower only leaks when it has been used, it is likely a problem with the waterproof membrane in the shower pan or at some transition on the wall where water is spraying.
The only way to fix the leak is to test the shower to see where the leak is originating. That will determine how to fix it. Applying a sealant at the baseboard won’t do it, as that is not the source of the water leak.
After reading this description, I am now realizing the various spots and white residue showing up on my grout is due to water coming through my tile floor. When we had this new floor installed, the contractor did test the moisture level and did tell us it was extremely high and said the floor needed to be sealed, which he did with three layers. Yet, now after a year I am noticing small little puddles of water building up in certain spots. At this point what can I do? Will home owners insurance cover this? Any advise would be much appreciated.
I have the same problem
I dont know what it is.
If you get an answer? Can you please share it with me.
Thank you
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Hi. I have a problem, water is seeping from somewhere, and is filling up the tiled floor in the hall way of my home. I dont know where it is coming from. Can you please help?
If you are finding a large amount of water on your tile floor in a hallway, chances are you have a leak somewhere.
Common leak spots are at water supply lines under sinks, at toilets, and at ice makers on refrigerators. You need to wipe up the water and then watch to see what direction it is coming from. If you see that the water is coming up through the tile grout joints, then read my responses to the other questions on this page to determine how to remediate the problem.
If you are getting puddles of water coming through your grout joint, then you likely have a hydrostatic condition. That means that the water table is near the surface of the ground or that a source of water from a higher location is draining toward and under your concrete slab.
The water puddles is a symptom of a hydro static water problem. The solution is to cut off that supply of water. You need to divert the water source and drain it away from your home.
This can be done by digging french drains around the perimeter of the house so that water draining towards the house or water rising up towards the house slab can be diverted away from the house.
You have to dig a ditch around the house at an appropriate depth relative to source of water, Install a perforated drain pipe, with a pipe sock over it to keep growth from going into the pipe, into the ditch. Then put gravel in the ditch so it is surrounding the pipe to facilitate water to drain to the pipe and to prevent dirt from getting in the ditch to plug the pipe perforations.
In some cases you may want to line the ditch with polyethylene sheeting to keep the water draining to the pipe from migrating towards the house, but that depends on where the source of water is coming from.
I have similar problem but who shall I contact, plumber, contractor or tile specialist? Thanks
It will be hard to find the right person. A plumber might be about to trouble shoot it, and maybe a tile installer or general contractor. A landscaper can install the trench drains assuming you have determined that is the problem. I would start with the landscaper to see if he can determine that you have a high water table or excessive moisture around the house.
My grout has tremendous amounts of water seeping through after hurricane hermine ( I am a bit north of Tampa) is this indication of sinkhole or just because the grpund is so saturated?
I can’t speak to whether you have symptoms of a sink hole or not.
I suspect that due to all of the rain that the ground is saturated and the water table in the ground has risen.
If water is seeping through the grout joints that could be an indication that you have hydrostatic water pressure occurring.
Hydrostatic pressure is a condition where the source of the water is at a higher level than the floor surface. Depending on how much force is being exerted by the water and depending on how well your tile is bonded to the substrate, hydrostatic pressure can cause tiles to debond.
Hi….i live in a apartment 1st floor, almost 10yr old. My hall i observe water drops every morning in some perticular verified tile joints. There is no water source nearby. I live in bangalore, india. Temp is around 30 and humidity 50 approx. Please suggest any solution.
Sometimes it is hard to find a water source because water can so easily travel beneath the floor and show up at spot far from where the source may reside.
If this water shows up every morning then you must try to associate it to some other activity that occurs every morning. Such as perhaps someone from a higher level is taking a shower or someone uses a washing machine every morning or perhaps someone is using sprinklers or watering plants or something outside that causes the water to then travel under the house.
In some cases the water may show up while the other activity is taking place. Although it is possible that the activity occurs earlier and then later the water finally migrates to your floor.
So you need to observe and investigate until you find that source.
As forensic investigators we use infrared cameras and moisture meters to survey the areas and we can then detect the direction of the water source and eventually the source of the water.
Hi!
I woke up this morning to find completely soaked floors in various locations of my home, my 3 bedrooms hallway but no bathrooms nor my laundry room, kitchen , or garage I have tile through out my entire home.
At first I thought it was a leak somewhere but only certain places in each room where covered in water and none of the water is connecting to each other..
What causes this?
Is there a chance for mold , or become hazardous for my children?
Also my landlord said he would send out a plumber but it isn’t coming from any bathrooms or any water sources.. & on top of that we live in Texas so it completely dry outside
Any advice??
If you don’t have a high water table or if you haven’t had any recent rains, and you are located in a dry climate, then I would have to guess that you might have a broke water pipe that might be embedded in your concrete slab.
Concrete has a relatively high pH and is not conducive for promoting microbial growth (mold). Although the water can migrate to organic materials that provide the food to promote microbial growth.
If the water reaches the drywall materials or enters into the wall cavities then you will need to have a flood restoration company come in and evaluate and remediate. In that case the insurance company should be brought in.
Sir,
Water is coming from the floor tiles of three rooms at sixth floor. This is a Ground and nine floors building.We have checked with common toilet at sixth floor by closing for two days.Still water comes.Also tried by seventh floor toilets non utilization for two days still leakages occur.
If water is coming through the floor tile grout joints on the sixth floor then the water is coming from the plumbing.
If the water shows up intermittently, then the source of the water could be from the showers or from the toilets. There might be a delay from the time the water source is used and the time it shows up at the tiles.
You should hire a plumber to detect the location of the leak.
Hi,
water came out from concrete slab at my kitchen. Main water valve had been off for a week. But puddles of water continue to appear every morning. Plumber check, no water leaks of pipes.
If there is no plumbing leak, then the water has to be coming from the ground for one reason or the other. You might have a high water table or water is traveling from a higher elevation to your lower elevation causing a hydrostatic condition. If that is the case then you need to install French trench drains around the perimeter of your house to divert the water to a drainage system.
I’ve got water seeping through my tile grout in kitchen by sink. Leak detection company found no signs of leak in drain or water lines that run in slab. Said it could still be a pin hole leak that’s undetectable. Water meter holds firm but does use some at night but I’m wondering if it’s the water heater filling up. Now I’m noticing the water seepage the most during and after a rain. No signs in walls or roof but the slab has over 12″ showing and the water could be draining under it. It’ll seep water for a good day or so after the rain. How do I determine where it’s really coming from before I spend more money? It’s a slab on grade in a neighborhood in Louisiana. A small pond sits about 20 yards away from house but has a good slope to it.
Since you say that the water seeping only shows up during or after a rain, and then it subsides, then it is likely due to water migrating from the outside through the concrete slab.
There is suppose to be a vapor retarder membrane placed under concrete slabs and it should run up the sides of the concrete footings and slab. This keeps water from migrating into the concrete slab that then can cause various moisture issues inside the house.
The grading of your property landscape should be sloped away from the house with at least a 2% slope. Although during a rain water can still travel or migrate towards the house.
You can dig along the sides of the concrete foundation and see if there is plastic membrane under the slab. If there is, you can waterproof the sides of the concrete with a liquid applied membrane for this purpose and use a bituthene flashing material to waterproof the transition from the vapor retarder to the waterproofed concrete sides.
If there isn’t a vapor retarder, you can install a french drain around the perimeter of the house so water traveling towards the house will go into the french drain, and drain away. This might not be effective if your problem is a high water table. Perhaps when it rains the water table rises to the point where water migrates into the concrete foundation.
Is it common for the water to find an opening in the slab such as where the pipes penetrate through? It looks like it’s wet around the copper lines coming through the slab under the sink in an interior wall about six feet from the exterior wall that has so much slab exposed. The water can be seen draining back over the slab between the concrete and brick on the outside. I really want to believe its rain causing the issue and the water is pushing up on the foundation finding the easiest path to penetrate up. Plumbers and American Leak detection haven’t been able to identify the source of the leak definitively but are eager to start replacing pipes. I don’t want to spend any uneccessary money on a pipe replacement or drainage project. Would a foundation repair company be the best to call at this point to get another opinion and estimate?
To do a thorough investigation it would be best to hire a forensic company who will be best equipped to determine the cause and the remediation.
Although it might not be practical considering the cost and your situation.
You might need to investigate it yourself or can hire a geotechnical engineer to evaluate the outdoor conditions.
It’s supposed to rain tomorrow so I’ll check to see how it looks after that. Currently it has been four days since it rained and a little water will still seep through a two foot section of the kitchen tile if you push down hard enough. It stormed very hard 4 days ago though so who knows how saturated the ground is. I still see damp areas of dirt around my yard. If the water gets worse tomorrow after the rain I’ll plan on getting someone to put a drain in around the house and probably gutters. If not I’ll find a new plumber to come look at it again and try to reroute my water lines through the attic.
Dear Sir
We built a house 2 years ago. Our house is two levels. We have a terrace coming from the upstairs bedroom which is also the ceiling above our livingroom. The terrace is tiled with very beautiful natural stone. When it rains, water is coming through a down light fitting in the livingroom. Would you suggest the rain is getting trough the tiles themselves? or grout? In between the floors there is the subfloor of the terrace (on which tiles were layed) , expertly applied waterproofing, then a metal layer that covers the entire area,then insulation and lastly plaster board. It’s a disaster. We are loathe to tear up the tiles but not sure what to do. The experts, including architect and engineer are all running out of excuses! love to hear your thoughts.
Hello Mr. Pompo, we’ve been dealing with similar issues. We installed new porcelain tile in 5 rooms of our house, after removing laminate flooring, and soon after we saw a few walls with wet spots in random areas, likely where the drywall was touching the concrete; it’s not throughout the house. We are seeing two areas in the grout that have beads of water consistently showing in the grout (it’s not a flowing stream). We will dehumidify the rooms, the area will dry up, then the water will show up again. After a ton of leak detection and mold remediation companies coming through, and an insurance claim denial, we did a pressure test on our irrigation and it was determined that we had two pipe leaks “underground” close to the house that are the likely culprit. We have no idea how long it’s been leaking while we irrigated the lawn; we have been watering the lawn twice a week for half hour clips for YEARS. We are currently in a drought in Central Florida, and we were told by the town that a high water table isn’t likely, since all the lakes and ponds around us are at an all time low. We installed french drains along the sides of the house, but now we think we need to go all around the perimeter, especially in the rooms that are showing water in the grout, because the beds against outside walls are in shade and aren’t getting any sun. If the concrete is “wet”, is there a way to dry out? More french drains? Sump pump? We did get an estimate from a concrete company to inject the concrete with polyurethane, as they said it would push out the water from any cracks in the concrete slab…but at $6,000 a ROOM it’s a last resort for us. We’ve gotten mixed advice about hiring a forensic engineer. We’re desperate for some REAL advice on how to handle this going forward, we’ve spent thousands already looking for leaks in the house. Thank you for any info you can share.
Hello, did you fix the irrigation leaks underground and does it fix the issue. Thanks. I have a very similar problem. I had a company perform camera inspection on a water drain/sewer line and suspected a leak. He came today hammer jack the tile through the concrete down to the pipe and found no leak. But as he lifted a tile you can see water/wet on the tile set groove. So now we ruled out leaks from water pipes.
Most natural stone tends to be very dense, so it is not likely that the water is traveling through the stone. The grout joints are porous so water can go through the grout and under the tile.
They may have waterproofed the underlying deck, but they could have made mistakes. There should be proper flashing, the membrane should be sloped to a drain that has weep holes to allow the water through.
If it is leaking then it isn’t fully waterproof. The only way to determine what the problem is, is to perform an intrusive inspection by removing various tiles to inspect the underlying conditions and look for the evidence. The only way to fix the problem is to determine what is the problem causing the leak.
Regarding the comment about having 5 rooms in a home with porcelain tile and finding a leak in the irrigation.
If you found the leak then the moisture problem should go away. If it hasn’t gone away then there is still a moisture problem. Maybe there are more irrigation leaks? Maybe there is a high water table? Maybe water from your landscaping is able to migrate into your concrete slab because you are don’t have a vapor retarder under your concrete slab that runs up the sides of the slab to prevent moisture from migrating inside?
In theory if you put french drains around the entire house, as long as the source of the water is outside the house it should work. If the source of the moisture is under the house, it probably won’t solve the problem.
Thank you for responding. The irrigation has been off for some time now. We had some rain a couple of weeks back but we are mostly in a drought. no rain in sight. Still seeing some evidence of water in a part of the room where I cut out the grout. have been running heaters and fans, and when I shit them off, the trickle of water returns. Not as much as before, but I’m afraid of what will happen when it rains. if the moisture that under the house is due to the fact that it’s just not drying fast enough, should we install a sump pump? We don’t think it’s a high water table issue because when we dug around the house, the soil was predominately wet where the leaks were, not the whole house. I wish there was a way to really determine how wet we are under the house, without resorting to excavation 🙁
The only to fully understand where the source of moisture is coming from, you have to do some trial and error exploratory evaluation. There are no quick and easy answers.
Appreciate it. We finally just got rain and within 2 hours, we started to see another grout joint fill with water. It subsided when the rain stopped. I think we’re going to add more french drains along the side of the room. We dug along the walls and found 17″ on concrete BELOW the slab, which is unheard of. And none of it looked waterproofed. I’m guessing the rain is finding it’s way through cracks. We’ll add the drains and if that doesn’t work, we’ll have to inject with poly. I’m not aware of any other options.
I have a weird one seems to be the hydrostatic ~ how long does it usually take to dry up if problem fixed ? We were still seeing water through one joint since December ( when we bought the house ) it had lessoned after we installed gutters and fixed downspouts. We finally pulled up that tile to see what was underneath and it in fact was wet near two grout lines. Now where the tile has been pulled up and dried its bone dry( no more water ). Seeing no water now that tile is up? So confused !! Would the tile being down be the cause or that was just old water still making its way up and now it’s fixed ?
If you fixed the problem, then the water would go away and the tile would dry assuming you have normal temperatures and low relative humidity.
Sometimes hydrostatic conditions are periodic. They only show up after a rain or some other event that subjected the property to water either by creating a higher water table in the ground or from a source of water from a higher level.
By fixing the gutters and downspouts diverts that water, but it doesn’t solve the problem of how that water originally was able to migrate under and into the house. It doesn’t keep water from a difference source from entering the house.
If the tile was damp and then you removed it and the spot dried and did not become wet again, then that source of water stopped for some reason. Maybe it has to do with weather it is a rainy season or not? It does not have anything to do with the tile itself.
Hello! Very similar issue we are having. Tried different above mentioned approaches – created French drains, but with the first real rain we see water spots on the grout on the floor again. We are out of options. Shocked to see how common this problem is in Florida.
The problem is that Florida tends to have a high water table and a lot of rain.
In addition, the builders typically do not properly install vapor retarders under the concrete slabs, so that it continues up the sides of the slabs and footings so water cannot migrate laterally into the concrete slab.
hello ,
we have similar problem in texas w did total home remodel and about a month ago water started coming up through tile joints and making small puddles i had leak detection company check al lines drains and water and found no leaks including pool i regraded all landscape areas to drain away from house and put french drain on back side and front of house very where except concrete driveway side and water is still coming up any ideas what i could do next.and this is in one pretty large area in living room.
You probably have a high water table and no vapor retarder under your concrete slab and coming up the sides of the slab. If water is puddling, you could have a hydrostatic condition where it is applying pressure to the tiles and could eventually cause tiles to debond.
If you have a high water table or a hydrostatic condition from another source of water, you should be able dig around the perimeter of your home deep enough so water starts filling the trench. So depending on the volume of water, your trench drain needs to be wide enough and deep enough to control it and have it drain away.
If you were installing a new tile floor you could treat the slab with a cementitious epoxy moisture barrier system to keep the water out as long as the hydrostatic pressure isn’t more than it can resist.
I have noticed a tiny, dime sized puddle of water in the grout lines in my kitchen near my dishwasher and sink. I have also notice white calcification in the grout lines nearby, directly in front of the sink – but never the dime sized puddle of water. Often it seems like the water seeps out of the grout lines when I’m standing on the adjacent tiles.
The tile in my kitchen was laid by the previous owner directly over the old 70’s linoleum flooring which, I’m guessing was laid right on top of the slab. I live in Arkansas and I can’t even remember the last time it rained. My house is, however, situated on a slope.
I’ve checked the water meter with all water utilities off and the meter is not running – which I believe indicates it is not a leak in the slab water lines. No hot spots on floor or high water bills. I have not noticed any “foul” smell that would lead me to believe it is a sewer line (and I though since they aren’t under pressure it likely wouldn’t come up through the grout). No drainage problems that I am aware of.
Could it be a previous leak from the sink or dishwasher that got between the linoleum and the tile and is being squeezed through the grout by the weight of a person?
Considering that you have said it doesn’t rain much, your property is on a slope, your water meter indicates you don’t have a pipe leak, there is a wet spot and there is calcification, (which we call efflorescence), staining, and that when you stand on the tiles in front of the sink and dishwasher water seeps out of the grout joint, I would guess that your dishwasher has a leak when it runs that seeps under the tiles. When you step on the tiles you force water up through the grout joint. The vinyl floor prevents the water from draining away, and you probably have some voids under the tile where the water collects. I would remove the bottom kick plate of the dishwasher and turn it on, and get a flash light and see if you can spot a leak. Good Luck.
I have linoleum tile in the bathroom there is also a bathtub and shower and one along with the toilet and I am seeing water seeping up through the cracks in the linoleum what all could this be? It’s coming up in about a space of 3′ x 4′ area and one single location of the bathroom.
I’m not sure if it’s the bathtub or the toilet or what any information that you could give me would be great I live in Texas and I live on an incline so there should not be any accumulation of outside water but I can’t be certain. If it was the toilet I would think I would see water directly around the toilet but I doubt it’s about maybe a foot away from toilet & maybe 2-3 feet from shower tub. Thanks for your help
it can be difficult to determine where the water is coming from. There are several sources of water. Shower and bathtub, toilet, sink, pipe, and an exterior source. I would monitor the leak and see if the water flow is consistent or intermittent. Does it seem to show up after you use the shower or the toilet or the washer? Or does it tend to show up after it rains? Or is it consistently flowing? So by a process of elimination you try to narrow it down to correlate it to another event. If it is consistent, then I would think you have a pipe that is leaking. Check your water meter and see if it still shows water flow after everything is off, which would be an indication if it was a water supply line leak. Being on an incline can cause water from a higher area to flow down to a lower area and cause a hydrostatic condition of water with pressure subjecting your floor. Once you have narrowed it down then you have to start taking somethings apart to further verify and substantiate your assumptions. Once you know what the water source is then you can determine how best to remediate the problem. You don’t want to treat the symptom because that won’t fix the problem.
Water is seeping up through the grout in and near my laundry room. Is there a plumbing issue related to the washer that could cause leaking under the porcelain tile instead of on top of it? We never see water puddled on top of the tile, only wet looking grout lines. It seems to be spreading and it’s in spotty places in those areas. Could it be related to the washer drain? Does that cause leaking under the tile? We are planning to call a plumber tomorrow as it seems to be spreading, but wanted to hear your thoughts.
It is possible that there is a slow leak under or behind the washer from either a water supply line or perhaps from when the washer is in use. The water could migrate through the grout under the washer and out beyond the washer.
There is a possibility that the water is coming from outside or within the concrete slab under the tile if you do have a concrete slab. Pipes do break in concrete slabs and sometime water from outside can migrate under and through the concrete slab and up through the porous grout.
The only way to determine for sure is to investigate. Using an infrared camera and moisture meter might show the path of the water. Looking for evidence outside might reveal something. Sometimes you have to remove some tiles to help determine the source of the water and how to remediate the problem.
Hi,
We have the same symptoms, slight moisture and small areas of water near grout in a few areas. Areas of white “calcium” on the floors also.
Is it possible that this could of been caused by a leakage/not functional AC system that is located in the garage on the house and pretty centrally located?
We have had the pressure tested and there is no water leak underneath the house.
The AC unit does have a lot of moisture around the bottom on the contrete etc. We have been advised that it is the AC system that has caused the water coming through the tile areas.
Any advice is much appreciated.
Thanks
The moisture with the white calcium suggests that the water is migrating from below up through the porous grout joints. I don’t think it is likely that the source of the water is the AC. I have not seen an AC that emits enough water that can’t be absorbed or evaporated in the local area.
It is more likely that there is either a high water table or water is migrating from a higher to lower area. towards the home.
The concrete slabs normally require a vapor retarder membrane under them and they are to continue up the sides of the slab so water from beneath the concrete slab or water from a lateral direction can’t reach the concrete slab. Often the membrane doesn’t continue up the sides of the concrete slab. In that case water from watering the plants can migrate into the concrete slab and up through the tile floor.
If we were investigating your situation, we would use our infrared camera to try to determine where the water source is coming from.
We have seeping water under our kitchen tile directly in front of our refrigerator. The location of the tile is between the sink and the fridge We do not see any leakage or water accumulation above the tile. I don’t see any water in the basement below the wet area, in the structure or any surround I have areas.
My best guest is that your refrigerator is leaking a small amount there it isn’t flooding, but keeping it damp. If you have a water supply line to the refrigerator it can be leaking. Or refrigerators can develop condensation that might be dripping on to your tile causing the grout to stay damp in that area. Otherwise the source of the water has to be coming from the other sources that we talk about in the previous entries.
Crazy crazy, I cannot believe I am reading these articles. Three weeks ago I had Stanley steamer come into my home to clean the floors before my first grandchild was born. After they left floors continue to stay wet we clearly thought they were oversaturated 95 percent of the house has dried out except for the kitchen. In the kitchen there are three areas that the grout is bubbling when we step on the child a line in front of the refrigerator which go to the back door and a line in front of the sink sink. I have stopped using the bathroom that is behind that wall and put two humidifiers in the house because I’m very worried about mold being a first-time grandmother .FYI I never had any problems up until 22 days ago when the floor was done is it possible I have a leak in the bathroom because I did have one there 10 years ago,It was just too coincidental for me to believe that ever since the floor has been done I now have water in my tile grout. Please advise me what to do
When water is bubbling out when you step on a tile indicates two things. First that the tile is not bonded and there is water underneath the tile.
It is possible that when they steam cleaned your floor that the steam condensates from the steaming process causing water to collect under those tiles where the grout has remained damp. The non-bonded tiles tend to have some degree of voids under them, to some degree, that can collect water. If the substrate under the tile and the tile are relatively impervious, it might take a long time for the water to completely evaporate.
On the other hand, you might have a slow leak from the other bathroom or from some other source and the steam cleaning process contributed to the problem that brought your attention to it.
I would first use fans and heaters to try to dry the tiles out. If they become completely dry at some point and don’t become damp again, then you can assume the steam cleaning was the source of the water. If it gets damp again then you have to look for the leak to see where the water is coming from so you can make the repair. Either process doesn’t fix the loose tile. That has to be removed and re-installed.
The previous comment is something similar to my situation. Purchased a house over a year ago as-is from a family friend. The house was a new build 11 years ago, one owner. The owners did not to any improvements or fix anything while living there for the 11 years. In the master bathroom, there were places in the tile that the grout was missing or cracked. Even a tile was cracked over by the toilet. (They are larger folks.) We just assumed it needed to be regrouted… but was waiting to redo the entire floor before we did anything so just let it be. So over a year later we noticed that when we step on this one tile, water seeps out a little through this hairline crack in its grout.
So my question is it water that was just on the floor from getting out of the bath and it got in the crack and it being winter and like 20 degrees, it’s not warm enough for it to dry up?
Or it being like two tiles in front of my sink (although I don’t see any other evidence of leaks anywhere) could it be a leak from my sink or bath tub?
Or is it a slab leak? And if so… what else should I be seeing? what do I do next?
As my previous answer to the previous question stated, that if water oozes out when you step on a tile, it means the tile is not bonded and water has collected under that tile.
Finding water leaks can be tricky. The water can flow from some other area to the spot under the tile, so you have to investigate with some trial and error methods. The water may be from a spill from the sink or the shower or otherwise. Of it could be a sign of a leak from a shower or a toilet or a pipe in the concrete slab.
First try to dry the spot where the water is with a fan or hair dryer. See if it becomes complete dry. If it does come completely dry then monitor it after you use the toilet and the shower and sink to see if it becomes wet again to determine where the water is coming from. If you try to dry it and it never becomes dry then you have get a moisture meter or an infrared camera to determine what direction the moisture is coming from. You may have to remove some tiles or other materials to find the water source. It maybe coming from outside. You might need to hire a professional to try to locate the water source.
Once the water source is found then you have to figure out what it will take to repair it to stop it. Then you have determine why is the tile loose and what do you need to do to repair the tiles and prevent the problem from reoccurring. Again you might need a professional to assist you in determining the extent of the problem and how to repair the problem and not just try to repair the symptom of the problem.
We installed SnapStone Porcelain floor tile in our bathroom about a month ago. We are now noticing wetness (white and brown coloring) coming up through the grout, especially when we step on that area of the bathroom. This is our first experience with tile flooring, so we not sure what we should do. We didn’t have any leaks when we started and completed the bathroom remodel which included putting a new seal under our current toilet and installed a new vanity. Do you have any suggestions? Thank you for your help with this matter.
If you installed the SnapStone Porcelain floor tile system, then that means it is a tile floating system where the tile assembly is just sitting on the floor and not bonded to the floor. That means that if the floor tile is subjected to water, either from a leak or from using the sink or shower, then the water might be collecting under the tile where there is some degree of a space. When you step on the floating tile floor where there is water underneath, then it will force the water up through the porous grout joints.
If the floor under the SnapStone tile is impervious, such as a vinyl floor, then the water has no where to go except if it evaporates at some point. Since the tile is an impervious porcelain tile it won’t absorb any of the moisture, and it will take a long time for the moisture to evaporate and floor to become dry.
I would try to not use the bathroom for a day or two and dry the floor with a heater to dry it out. If the floor becomes dry and water doesn’t come up through the grout joint , then perhaps the source of the water is from using either the shower, or the sink or the toilet. Use one of those water sources at a time and see if you can then detect a leak. This will tell you where the source of the water is from and then you will need to figure out how to fix it.
Hello,
I am so glad I came to your site because I seem to be having the same problem as many here. Water coming up from grout joints etc. in many of your responses you suggest to hire a professional. Can you suggest who should I begin with first? It seems like there can be many steps and people involved to fixed this, but am at a loss as to where to even begin. Thank you in advance for any advice.
The ideal solution is to hire a construction forensic investigator to evaluate your situation, but that might not be practical cost wise. The next best thing is to contact a plumber who has experience at leak detection to see if they can help you determine the source of the water. Once you identify the source of the water, then you can try to determine how to remediate the defect. Often people only identify the symptom and try treating the symptom, which doesn’t treat the problem, so the problem reoccurs.
My house in central FL has wood floor, I have been living here over 12 years, not sure if the wood was installed on the construction of the house on 1999. Around 2 years ago I noticed a small dark brown area in the office, since last year it has grown and now I have brown areas in the main room and in the dining room. None of them feel wet, or are close to the bathroom or kitchen or appear to be close to any tubing. I check the water meter over 8 h and does not appear to be any leaking. I bought a digital moisture meter and humidity is higher in the dark brown areas. The original dark area in the office is beginning to lift and is close to the wall. Some people say I could replace only those areas, but probably it won’t look very good and it will happen in the near future in other areas, and that I should remove all the wood and probably use tile. You mentioned epoxy vapor barrier on other questions; but asking in local stores, they say it is not necessary if I put tile. Other say I should use vinyl because humidity can pass for the ground of the tile. I have the idea vinyl will decrease the price of my house. At the same time, I am really concern about health and wonder if the dark color is just a change for the humidity on the wood or in your experience when that happen mold will begin to growth there.
I will appreciate your guidance. Thanks!
If the moisture reading is higher in the darker areas that suggest that is moisture. You can get an infrared camera to survey the areas to see if you can identify what areas have high moisture and to see if it shows where it is coming from.
They say that because glazed or porcelain ceramic tile is impervious and is bonded well to a concrete substrate and that the cementitious grout is porous, then the moisture can migrate through the grout joints and it doesn’t cause a failure. You can still get damp grout joints.
The manufacturers of the installation products will say that if the relative humidity of the concrete substrate is more than 85% or if the calcium chloride test is greater than 12% that you need a vapor barrier. Some are more conservative than others.
It costs about $2 a square foot to install a vapor barrier, so you should first have the concrete slab and surrounding areas evaluated to see if there is a moisture problem. You might be able to correct a problem and not need the vapor barrier. In some cases it isn’t practical to correct the moisture problem, and that is where a vapor barrier is the best solution.
I currently live on one of the keys in Fl in a small unit that might have been a converted carport. There is a slightly odd smell and I seem to be having a bit of a reaction allergywise to the unit. It gets much worse after heavy rain. There is vinyl flooring. A friend and i pulled up a few pieces of the flooring and it has been put down over a small barrier that was laid directly into tile. There appears to be a slight bit of moisture and some mold between the barrier and the tile. They said the vinyl was installed well and it well sealed. Can mold still seep through somehow? Wondering what the next best steps are? Trying to find the most workable low cost solution for now. Would it be better to pull up the vinyl and go back to the tile floor (it looks like some sort of grout or cement was use to patch some large areas)? Or, would installing tile over the tile be a potential solution? Thank you!
Chances are that there is a high water-table below your building, and/or, when it rains water is sloping towards the building.
Because you have the moisture problem, this also suggests that you do not have a vapor retarder, or one that is working, under your concrete slab to prevent moisture from migrating up through the concrete.
Having the dampness and the microbial grow are symptoms of excessive an moisture problem.
You would be best to remove the vinyl flooring. Then apply an epoxy vapor coating system over the concrete floor designed for tile installations, and then adhere your porcelain ceramic tile to the properly prepared floor substrate.
I’m so glad I found this site! My second story porch is tiled and exposed to the elements. (which in Central Florida means a lot of rain) There is water leaking through the tile and grout and dripping to the patio below. I cut large square sections out of the ceiling to expose the plywood (the sub floor of the porch above) and the plywood is damp and water is slowing dripping from small nail holes in the plywood. I am really trying to avoid ripping up the tile on the porch so I was hoping you had some ideas on possibly sealing the grout or other fixes to prevent water from leaking through the tile to the sub floor.
I don’t think where is any reasonable way to stop the leaking from your exterior porch by a simple fix. Chances are when the tile was installed they did not waterproof the patio deck or they did waterproof it properly.
Trying to fix this problem without replacing the entire installation would be like putting a band-aide on it. You would be treating the symptom and not the problem.
If the plywood was damp and water leaking from it, then there is no way to know if the water is coming from the entire deck surface or if it is coming from a certain spot where the waterproofing is breached; if there is any waterproofing. Plus if the plywood has been damp for an extended period of time, it could end up warping and causing other damages.
Sealing the grout doesn’t waterproof the grout. Hypothetically, you should remove all of the grout and replace it with an ASTM C920 silicone sealant and caulk the joints to in essence waterproof the joints. You could go to all tile transitions on the deck and fill those joints too with the sealant. So in theory, if all those joints and transitions is where the water was entering from, then it could stop the water from entering.
The only way to truly understand the problem and know how to remediate it, is to remove various tiles on the deck to determine what the underlying conditions are that have caused the problem. Then you will know what it will take to fix the problem.
Hi we just brought a house 3 weeks ago. It’s a 4 storey house but on a hill so the downstairs is like a basement although not covered by ground any side, bar steps on one side going down to garden. In the bathroom downstairs water seems to be seeping through the tiles. The house was vacant for 3 years before moved in and it’s a very old house. There was no damp/water on floor when moved in. A lot of work needs to be done surveyor said drains need be done fairly soon. We haven’t had rain for about 6 weeks and high temp/heatwave, so I’m wondering could this be a leak. If it is would it be easily fixed. This bathroom is at edge house the side where concrete steps are against wall outside. Also how soon would it need to be fixed, we are going get drains done soon but whole house we be getting renovated few months could it wait till then or would there be temporary solution. Thanks
To determine if you have a leak from your plumbing. Make sure all water faucets and bibs are turned off. Go to your water meter and see if the meter dial is still moving. If it isn’t moving then you don’t have a leak. If it is moving, then you have to investigate to determine where the leak is located. A plumber should be able to help you with that.
If there is no leak, then the water source could be coming from the hill adjacent to your home. Water always travels down hill and it could be traveling underground until it reaches to your home foundation. There is a chance it could be a hydrostatic water leak meaning there is pressure from the water traveling from a higher area to a lower area. In that case you may need to install french trench drains around the perimeter of your home or on the side where the water is showing up. If you did a deep hole in the earth on that side you can see if it feels up with water.
Hi,
I’m in Houston, and about 2 years ago I had issues with wood floors turning black due to a high moisture content in the slab. I hired a lead detection company and they found and repaired two broken pipes in different places under the foundation. I also had gutters installed and pulled flower beds away from the foundation as they suggested. I then had a flooring company come out, use some type of roll-on moisture barrier, reinstall the wood floors, and we did not have any problems…..until being flooded by Harvey.
After the flooding, we put down all tile floors. Everything is fine except for one small office in the corner of the house. We are continually getting moisture and efflorescence coming up in the grout lines. We clean it, and it comes back in days. Sometimes you can even see the moisture immediately after removing the efflorescence. The tile installer said I just have to wait until the slab dries out, but I don’t really see that as an end to the problem since this has been going on for over 4 months. The house was built in 1974, so there is a good chance there was no moisture barrier used or it has since become ineffective. They don’t seem to have any other solution at this point. I sure could use some advice! Thanks in advance!
Rick
Since you continuously have moisture in the grout joints and you have efflorescence that means water is migrating up through the slab in that area.
There could be other broken pipes providing the source of water? Or there is a high water table and you don’t have a vapor retarder membrane that was installed correctly or is working correctly.
I would check the soil outside one of the exterior walls adjacent to this room and dig down and see if the soil is damp. Also see if there is a vapor retarder membrane under the slab and up along the side of the concrete slab.
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Hello, I truly appreciate this forum and you helping with all these questions/problems that are occurring, as it is helping me to think outside the box and consider more options. Here’s my issue. I bought the house I grew up in, built in 1982. Never had any issues with leaks, floors were always carpet then converted to laminate with a moisture barrier underpayment. When I purchased the home and moved my family in, I removed the laminate flooring throughout the house, as well as tile from the kitchen area (only location where tile was ever installed) . The foundation slab appeared to be dry to the naked eye, no cracks observed. I had porcelain tile planks installed throughout the entire house. Several weeks after completion, AT&T dug trenches around my house to install fiber optic lines. Weeks upon completion, I started to notice efflorescence spots in our guest bedroom, which is located on the far north side of the ranch style home (South Florida). A week goes by and I notice more in other bedrooms, all on the north side of the home. The water spread to my living room area, but never reached the kitchen area, which is located on the south side of the house. I removed a tile in the guest bedroom where the spots first were noticed, and once I hit it with a hammer water immediately began to bubble up from the cracked tile. Once the tile was removed there was a significant amount of water underneath it. It dried overnight, however when I stand on the side of the exposed area, water swishes into the exposed area. The water hasn’t dried and has remained for several months now. When the efflorescence appears, and if we leave it, it forms a seal and water will pop up in an adjacent area where it was dry before. I filed a claim and a restoration company came out with dehumidifiers and fans, which did nothing. Nitrous was run throughout the lines, no leak detected. Pressure tests were done on all the pipes, including the main water line, no leak detected. A structural engineer came out, and he couldn’t find the cause of the water. I’m at a loss here. There was a large black olive tree between my house and my neighbors (north side of the house) where the roots were growing toward my house, and we would cut the roots on the surface to prevent them approaching the house, however maybe some roots underground could have reached the foundation and caused some cracking? The tree was removed approximately 2-3 years ago however, and this water has appeared only recently. I was advised that my water table is 6-8 feet below and if it has risen, it would reflect with my pool level and the level in the canal, which approximately 100 feet from my patio doors. Pool level has remained the same, as well as the canal level. Water meter doesn’t move when the water is off. I don’t seem to notice a difference wether it rains or not, the water never goes away and finds new areas to come up at, lately it’s been coming up mainly in the family room area (central part of house). I’m at the point now where I may just rip up the tile in the guest room where the efflorescence was first noticed and see if it dries out or indicates where the water may be coming in from. I’ve been told that it may be a breakdown of the thin set and tile, having a chemical reaction with the foundation. I’ve had all the professionals out here to inspect and all of them just scratch their head with no explanation as to the cause of the water let alone how to remedy it. Any insight you can give me would be more then appreciated!
There are many variables so without performing a forensic inspection you can’t really conclusively determine the cause of the water migrating up through the tile.
If the AT&T guys breached the vapor retarder that is suppose to be installed under concrete slabs and up the sides of the slabs as a moisture barrier, then that could be the source of the water.
If the water table has risen and there is no vapor retarder membrane under the concrete slab then that could cause the moisture migration and could create a hydrostatic water condition that could cause the tiles to debond.
The water is coming from somewhere. I would dig down around the house to see if you find saturated areas that would indicate where the moisture is coming from.
Hello. 1 year ago I had 9 inch by 48 inch porcelain floor tile installed with 1/8″ grout lines. I recently pressure washed the exterior of the house to paint it. I now have 2 wet spots about 3 feet from the exterior wall in grout lines. My question is that if moisture penetrated the slab, how long would it remain until it clears up? My understanding is that porcelain is not very porous, so could this take a while? Thanks for any advice!
The question is where did the water enter from when you pressure washed the outside of the house? You could have saturated the planter with water and it could have migrated into the concrete slab and up through the grout joints. Concrete slabs are suppose to have a vapor retarder membrane under the slab and up the sides of the slab so water can’t migrate into the slab.
Or the water could have penetrated through a joint at the windows or at another transition and migrated into the wall cavity and down to the concrete slab and to the grout joint. This is more problematic as you could develop microbial growth inside the wall.
Porcelain tile is impervious by definition, so that is why the moisture migrated to the porous cementitious grout. Moisture in the slab doesn’t harm the concrete. Tile installations are more resistant to moisture, but you can develop efflorescence staining, but it can be removed. So as long as you don’t have a consistent source of moisture then it should not be a problem. Although if the moisture is coming from the planter then when it rains the moisture showing up in the grout joint may reoccur unless you have french drain of some sort to divert the water.
Hi!
We discovered small amount of water coming up through our grout, long story short, we have ruled out any type of water leak and started removing all the tiles across the house… to find out it was actually a slow leak from rain water coming in from a door. The rain water was seeping through the side of the tile, and probably traveling through the thin set and concrete slab. Because we have never seen water coming in, this slow leak probably happened for about 3 years. Water would pop up at random spots in my house. (some were 25 feet away from the door) Our contractor says it’s because the water went through the slab and since the slab is not monolithic, the moisture can come up at random spots. We will re slope the outside area by the door to make sure water can’t come in again this way.
My question is, do we need to remove the tiles for the rest of the house to make sure there’s no other wet spots? Our contractor stopped at where it seemed dry, but I can’t stop thinking about what if there were random spots that we just can’t see. If left alone, and without new moisture coming in, would that water go back down into the concrete and dry on its own?
If the tile was installed correctly the residual water/moisture should not harm the tile. Tile is often installed in showers, fountains, and pools and the moisture should not harm them as long as installation isn’t in an exterior environment with a freeze-thaw climate with a porous tile.
Hi
I am having an outside in ground pool being installed which has being tiled, we’ve had quite a lot of rain and we’ve being draining the pool so it can dry for the tiles to be layed. The tiles have now being laid and we are now getting pools of water and tiles lifting. the builder has taken up some of the tiles and we can see water coming up through the concrete slab we suck out the water and then is dry for 24 hrs then every afternoon it comes back we are in a heatwave at present 38 degrees and will be dry for the next few weeks.
when we go to look at the pool it is a opac in colour and looks a bit salty.
what do we need to do to sort this problem?
Kind Regards
Glenn
Sounds like you have a high water table that is causing a hydrostatic water pressure condition. Tile cannot resist that type of pressure. When they dug the pool they should have know that there was a high water table and they should have installed a vapor retarder to keep the water contacting the pool shell.
Plus the tiles installed with a thin-set mortar need to cure for at least 14 days before they are submerged in water to assure adequate curing and resistance to the water.
Hi, We had a tile floor installed about a year ago and are getting water through the grout. we’ve had a French drain installed, and had a leak detector out found no leaks, also lifted a couple of the tiles and drilled through the cement slab to check for any sign of moisture and none found. before we had the floor installed, we had like a pergo floor that was removed and the cement was dry as a bone. Can you give me any ideas on what could be the problem? And who I might contact to find the problem for us.
If there is water coming through the grout joint then it is coming from somewhere of course that is the challenge to find out where.
You said you cored through the cement slab and it was bone dry, and that you installed a french drain, I assume that you installed french drain to manage a water issue. So apparently it is keeping your slab dry at lease in the area that it is managing.
I would expect that if you removed a tile adjacent to the wet grout that there would be some clues beneath it. If you retained a company like http://www.CTaSC.com to investigate it, we would bring an infrared camera to determine the direction of where the moisture could be coming from along with strategically removing some tiles to look for evidence that would lead us to the water source that would then determine how to remediate the problem.
Mr. Pompo, everyone is writing about water coming up through their grout lines. That appears to be what we have, but I can not figure it out. We live in N California and it has not rained for months, logically there should be no water lines anywhere near where we see that grout staining (under the foundation) and it does not appear to ever dry out. Just appeared a few days ago. No white powder residue like some others commented on. Just appears to be staining and appears to be growing. What else can it be?
If the grout wetness just started a few days ago then it is too soon to see any efflorescence staining. Water leaks or sources can be difficult to trace because they can travel a long distance.
Water always goes down hill due to gravity unless there is a siphon condition where it can go up hill due to a continuous flow of water. Water will also migrate long distances if there is a continuous source of water.
You can’t determine the fix until you determine the source of the water, which can be difficult. Sometimes you can have a leak and you don’t see any wetness anywhere. Sometimes the water source is intermittent e.g. sprinklers, running of a washing machine etc. You might have to go through a process of elimination. If you hire a leak detection company they can pressure test your water source lines to determine if they have a leak. Check your water meter see if it is running when everything is off. Go to any adjacent mountain or hill locations on your property to look for evidence of water running down hill above or under the ground. Check your irrigation system to see if it leaking or putting too much water in adjacent planters. Get an infrared camera to look for trails of cold/dampness. Good luck.
I have a slab house and in one room have radiant floor heating probably installed about 40year back. It works great. However on that radiant floor in between some tiles I see the white efflorescence between the grout lines. It’s not on the entire area but just in few tiles. Sometimes it gets a little moist but no water pooling. My water bill is normal and recently we also put a water pressure valve on the hot water heater to monitor. I am not sure if one of the pipes in the radiant floor has a leak or is it just moisture from water table on slab. This room is an extension that was built separate from the main house slab
Efflorescence is a symptom of a moisture condition. If you don’t have moisture you can’t have efflorescence. Chances are the source of your moisture could be the radiant tubing that have developed a small leak. At this point might not be worth removing tiles to verify and repair, as you will need replacement tiles that will match the existing tile.
Oh my gosh I am a bit surprised to find that this issue is so common. I too am having water showing up in my tile grout. The moisture has caused the walls underneath my windows to discolor a white color. I called a mold company and they said it’s not mold. Anyway with all your suggestions who do I even call to come out to test and try to figure out where this water source is coming from, a plumber, a contractor?
There are plumbers who specialize in leak detentions, but I’m not sure they would know how to detect the moisture condition that might not be related to a pipe leak. There are not many experts like us who would have the knowledge or experience to investigate this type of condition. It might not be practical to hire a company like us as our prices are on the high side.
Hello! I had a shower installed about a year and half ago, I had an old bathtub removed and shower pan installed, the membrane went way up the walls and everything was red guarded – we used small marble tile all over the shower walls and the floor. A half a year later small pockets of water seem to come up through the shower floor about 12 hours after a shower has been taken, and after the floors have dried. I’ve had three plumbers look at it and none of them know what it’s from. The home is on a crawlspace in central Florida, the bathroom is in the middle of the house so it’s difficult to get to it. The person living there has been drying the shower with a stain fan after every shower, would that cause the grout to break down and allow water seepage? Any ideas? To my knowledge the shower pan was installed correctly. I really don’t want to rip out the entire thing since it’s all brand new and cost a fortune. Also a bench was put in the shower made with three concrete blocks placed on top of the liner, Could this be the culprit? Thank you for any insight! Much appreciated
This does sound odd. You said that the Redgard waterproofing was applied way up the wall. I wonder why not all the way up. You say that about 12 hours after the shower has been used and the floor is dry small pockets of water seem to come up through I assume the grout on the floor. The shower is installed on a raised sub-floor and thus not in direct contact with the ground.
Logically speaking, the floor surface would dry faster and as it dries it draws the moisture from beneath the tile. Thus any water that penetrated through the grout joints on the wall would eventually drain down through gravity and maybe eventually be drawn into the floor substrate by the evaporation process through the floor grout joints, and hypothetically speaking could create a hydrostatic condition that drives the water up through the grout joints.
That said, the 12 hour delay for water to doesn’t seem to fit into the above scenario. If there was unrestricted water flow it should occur soon after the shower event.
The water source seems to be from the outer surface of the waterproof membrane and not behind entering where there is no membrane. So I would assume the water source is from using the shower. To impede the water from getting behind the marble you can try sealing the grout joints. This doesn’t waterproof the joints, but it makes them water resistant. You can see if that will help. Also typically the transition inside joints of a shower are not caulked with an ASTM C920 sealant as they are suppose to be. These transitions are normally where water can enter if they are not constructed properly and often they are not caulked So if that is the case I would remove the hard grout at any inside vertical joint and at all horizontal transition joints from one plane to the other.
Hi Donato,
Firstly thanks for all of your thorough replies. I am on the west coast of central Florida and have a home near the water. I have a 500 square foot area on the bottom floor that I would like to tile (we use the top floor as “living area” so this is a bonus room). The area is currently a concrete slab that I mistakenly painted a few years ago. In the subsequent years, the paint has peeled up pretty much everywhere and there is white powder in spots, which is efflorescence. I’m pretty sure we have a high water table. I don’t think the moisture is from any other reason. If I place a piece of tile down (sample tile), and I lift it up some time later, there is condensation underneath.
I’d like the floor grinded/prepped and then tiled. Here is where I am getting conflicting information from installers and others. 1) Some say don’t treat it at all. Simply grind it down to get the paint off and then get a good quality thinset and put tile directly down. The solution is that the porcelein tile will keep the moisture from underneath at bay. But what about the grout? Won’t moisture come up from there and also the efflorescence? Is there a special grout or sealant I can use to combat that issue?
2) Next option. Grind/prep, then put something like Redguard down. Then tile and grout. My worry on this is won’t the thick powdery effloresence and/or the moisture cause that Redguard to eventually bubble up (lose its contact with the concrete) then in turn make the tiles pop up as they have no good adherence on that Redguard/concrete level (similar to the paint?).
3) Use a product like Schluter’s Ditra or another uncoupling membrane, then tile/grout. The issue with this is I am not finding installers familiar with using the Ditra for this type of application and area. Is it necessary?
You mentioned above to others using a “epoxy vapor barrier” and a “cementitious epoxy moisture barrier system.” Are those different things? Which one is best for my application?
Thanks in advance.
You obviously have a high moisture condition on the slab in your bonus room that will need mitigating. First you should grind and clean the concrete slab. If you are certain there is not hydrostratic water pressure that can be caused by a high water table you might get by with a product like redgard membrane or the ditra mat. Although water tables can rise and lower from climatic conditions so you might not have hydrostatic pressure now, but you could have it if there was a heavy rain storm for a prolong time.
The safest bet is to use an epoxy based moisture mitigation system that normally has a cementitious component so you can bond your tile to it. Some are rated for some degree of hydrostatic water pressure.
The efflorescence only precipitates if the moisture coming through from the concrete slab evaporates. If the membrane is properly applied over the slab without excessive moisture it can perform well.
Good morning, I have been reading your Q&A on water seeping up through a tile floor and this is the problem we are having. We live in Miami and I have just recently tried to install new gutters to divert water away from my foundation but water is still seeping up. I had a foundation professional come out and he said try gutters first, then possibly a french drain…last and worse case he said we would need to pull up all our tile downstairs which is a financial and logistical nightmare… We live approximately 30 feet from a fresh water flood control canal. My question is who should I call that can give me an honest appraisal and plan to remediate this? I cannot rent or sell my home with this condition.
We appreciate your time and expertise.
There isn’t a simple solution or process to be able to come up with price and specific plan. It requires an investigation to intrusive search for evidence to lead you to the water source and a solution. First you need to determine where the water is coming from. It could be due to a high water table that will fluctuate in height depending on how much rain you get. Putting in a trench drain with a sump pump might work depending on the volume of water. It might be more practical to remove the tile and install an epoxy moisture mitigation system that is recommended for this condition and then install new tile over it.
As far a who to call a company like ours could to it but it might not be practical considering our fee rates. You can try a geotechnical engineer who could evaluate the water table condition. You can hire a qualified tile installer, which may not be easy to find, to do the tile replacement. Make sure whatever remediation plan is used is verified that it is recommended for the situation.
Hi Donato: Have been reading your comments, and you have very good advice. Question is, how do I know if the moisture coming up through the grout lines (and efflorescence) is due to “wet slab” (this is what the leak detector said) or high water table or??? The contractor who put down the tile was well aware of the high moisture in the floor and put down a sealer called BoneDry. The directions said to wait at least 6 hours for it to dry, and preferably over night. He waited 20 to 30 minutes!! I started getting moisture up through the grout about week or so after the tile was put down. Question: should I have a French drain put in?? should I have the floor taken up and an epoxy sealer put down — this seems to be the best to use (not sure I would survive this). The contractor should have known to use epoxy, but he wanted to use a sealer he had in his warehouse. I must say, I’m at my wits end. Many thanks for your advice.
The only way to determine the source of the water that is making the concrete slab wet is to investigate by digging around the perimeter of the house and see if the water table is high. Or perhaps the planters around the house are very wet and the water is migrating laterally into the concrete slab.
I looked up BoneDry which is a concrete sealer. It doesn’t make any reference to being able to bond tile to it. It could be a bond breaker sealer that will minimize the tile being able to bond to it. The website doesn’t say what is its chemistry, but I suspect it is a silicate based material that can be difficult to bond to. If water is coming up through the grout joints it apparently isn’t working even though it says it can resist high moisture.
To determine how to remediate the problem you need to investigate it to determine the source of the water and see whether a french drain will solve the problem or if you need to replace the floor and install a moisture mitigating epoxy system.
I had someone come this week and dig a trench around the room exposing the foundation. He ran water into the trench on both sides, and one side did not go down for awhile while the second side seemed to go down quicker. He said I had a high water table . Well, I live in Florida!! He also said the foundation had some small cracks? and he applied ChemSeal which is a waterproof cement based coating for concrete on the foundation. This is a ChemMasters specialty product. He was almost sure this would solve the problem. Said this product would eliminate the necessity for having a French drain — will permanently waterproof the foundation. I have been dealing with this since Sept. 9, and must say that it has beaten me down. The new tile floor was also taken out this week. How do you investigate — nobody seems to know what to do. I have read and investigated so much that I have a permanent headache. What type or kind of moisture mitigating epoxy system do you recommend. Is there a company I can trust. I feel most just want to sell THEIR system. I truly believe this has me warn completely down. Please help.
If you are going to reinstall new tile then use a single source installation system from a manufacturer of installation products for tile. Manufacturers like Mapei, Custom Building Products, and Laticrete have systems with moisture mitigation products and they give 25 year or more labor and material warranties if you use their system of products and install them properly per their directions and per industry standards.
Just talked to a rep. where I bought the tile, and he said he is only aware of a Mapei product with moisture mitigation for showers — not floors with hydrostatic pressure pushing moisture up through the grout. That puts me back to square one.
Hydrostatic condition is where water is actually forcibly shooting up through the floor. Water seeping or migrating through the grout is normally not considered hydrostatic condition where it creates a pressure greater than the epoxy moisture barrier attachment. Tile distributor sales reps probably are not the best source for technical information. Always go to the manufacturer’s technical service.
Mapei produces a Epoxy Moisture Reduction Barrier system called Planiseal VS that could work for you. Check with Mapei, not your tile rep. Custom Building Products has a product called CustomTech TechMVC 100% Solids Epoxy Moisture Vapor Control. ARDEX sells a product called ARDEX MC™ RAPID Moisture Control System is a one-coat, 100% solids epoxy moisture management system.
Donato: Have you ever heard of MCS Eco-Seal. A local flooring store said they can fix my moisture problem by grinding the subfloor in preparation and then applying this two component epoxy. There are so many sealers out there, I am confused, to say the least. I am still concerned that the moisture will be stopped by the epoxy, but will them go horizontally out to the walls. Please help!
I looked at their data sheet. I see a number of things that do not make the MCS Eco-Seal suitable. It doesn’t specifically mention that you can bond to it with a tile thin-set mortar. It’s limitations to 15lbs per 1000 sf per CaCl test or 85% RH is low. Other products referenced in my last comment don’t have those limitations and they are made for tile applications to go over them.
Moisture migration doesn’t develop pressure per se like hydrostatic water pressure can create significant pressure. Hydrostatic water pressure is normally water coming from a higher elevation and running down under your concrete slab and up through the slab creating a significant pressure that most flooring systems can’t resist.
Moisture migration is like a sponge. Once it is saturated it doesn’t absorb any other moisture and doesn’t cause any significant pressure or expansion in concrete slabs. So once you top the slab with an epoxy moisture migration system then the slab can’t absorb any more moisture. It is possible that the concrete beneath the wall cavities won’t have the moisture barrier, but it hasn’t had it up to now any ways and it is still limited on what the slab can take.
Using a moisture migration system is treating the symptom of a problem and not the problem. To treat the problem you need to determine the source of the water and divert it to a drain. That is where digging french drain trenches around the outer perimeter of the building might be necessary.
I did find a company who specializes in doing this work in Ohio, and maybe there are others who do it as well in your area. They are http://www.ecosealsolutions.com
Donato: Spoke with a flooring person today, and he said to put down a floating floor. Even though there is moisture in the slab, it will not hurt the floor. The percent of moisture in a floor is always fluctuating (according to him) and a floating floor will allow this to happen. Yes, he said, there will be times when there is water under the floor, but so what. There will also be times when there is much less water, or no water. Said I should NOT put down a sealer because that will trap the moisture, and the moisture will find another way out — horizontally, and up the walls — certainly don’t want this to happen. Does this make since to you?
Here again is someone suggesting to treat the symptom of the problem rather than fix the problem. There are a lot of different types of floating floors using different types of finish flooring materials. You couldn’t install a wood or vinyl floating floor that is subjected to moisture or it would fail. A ceramic tile floating floor might not fail per se in terms of the clay body material, but you still have a moisture problem.
If moisture is present then you will tend to get a musky odor and you could develop microbial growth (mold) and that could be a health issue.
The best solution is to locate the source of the moisture and divert it away. If there isn’t hydrostatic water pressure an epoxy mitigation system could work as it stops the flow of moisture from migrating into the building.
Hello, I have a problem with my daughters room that floods each time theres heavy rain. There are no water stains on the wall, window or door. But when it rains theres a big puddle in the bedroom. There is a crack on one tiled floor and as i step on water goes up along with the surrounding puddles of water in the area from the door to the window area. I have fixed the roof and the pavement outside the bedroom. I would like to find someone who can detect where the leak is coming from. Is this the right company to call for such a service? Thank You. My house is located in long beach, California. If you are not in the area can you recommend someone who does this? Thank You.
Your situation is similar to the situations above where water migrates up through grout joints. In your case it is migrating up through a crack and chances are it is also migrating up though the grout joints too.
Because this condition only occurs during heavy rains, this suggests that either the water table rises during these rains that cause perhaps a hydrostatic water pressure condition, or it could be that surface or underground water is draining towards that house during these heavy rains. Either way the assumed concrete slab is being subjected to water from one of these conditions.
Either your concrete slab does not have a vapor retarder to protect it from these water intrusion conditions or the vapor retarder wasn’t installed correctly or the vapor retarder used is so old that it has degraded and is allowing water to reach the concrete slab.
Because of the correlation between the water puddles and heavy rain we will assume you don’t have a ruptured water pipe in the concrete slab or underneath it.
The solutions are like the suggestions in the above answers to the other questions. You need to determine the source of the water. There is a chance if you dig a french trench drain around the perimeter of the house you will see evidence of where the water is coming from. There is a chance that installing a trench drain might divert the water to the storm drains if done properly. It might be necessary to remove the tile floor and repair the crack and install an epoxy moisture migration system to then bond the tile to it.
I would first file a claim with your insurance company. They can recommend a water damage restoration company who might be equipped to remediate this for you. Maybe or maybe not it will be covered by the insurance company.
Hello, is it possible for water to run underneath ceramic tile which has been glued to a cement subfloor? 4 months ago I fixed a leak in my shower stall whereby water was leaking into an adjacent wall. I waited 6 weeks to insure the leak was fixed before putting things back together. Now I find water 15 feet away in the opposite direction from the shower, where the tile meets the tacked down carpet. Could the leak from the shower gone underneath the tile for that distance? The tiles and grout are in excellent shape, no cracks, flaking, etc.
One of the challenging things about water leaks is that where it shows up can be far from where the water source is located. The concrete floors and cement mortars are porous, so water will migrate through those materials. Water can migrate in all directions of the concrete, but more so it will readily migrate downhill from the water source.
If you use an electronic moisture meter for concrete or an infrared camera you might be able to trace the path of the water to its source.
Hello,
We recently noticed some of our floor tile grout is starting to get discoloured (darker) and some tile grout have some white residue that smells a bit sour. We have been living here for 2 years and have not experienced any leaks of any kind. Also, we live in an apartment on the third floor and there are 5 floors in total. We’re wondering if this is something we should be worried about and how can we fix it?
P.S. Glad I came across this post, it has been hugely educational.
The white residue is likely efflorescence staining which is symptom of a moisture problem. The odor suggests that the moisture is not fresh water, but stagnate water. We see this in showers where the shower floor was not properly installed in that the slope of the waterproof membrane under the floor tiles is not properly sloped to the drain and/or the drain weep holes are plugged and the water can’t drain away. So it never dries out as it should and starts giving a musky odor.
First you have to verify where the water is coming from. It isn’t coming from the exterior if you are on the third floor unless you have a balcony where water could be coming from it because it wasn’t constructed correctly. So it must be coming from the shower or other interior water source.
Once you know where the water is coming from you can stop the leak or you can repair the shower floor to allow the water drain.
Hello,
I am from the north east part of India. My house is around 25 years old and is in an area which sees frequent flooding. The land in the garden area surrounding my house is higher than the plinth level so as to prevent flood water to enter the property. Recently, after 2 days of heavy rainfall, water started seeping in from the joints between floor and wall in multiple rooms. We don’t have any concrete or tiles flooring. Just brick flooring with cement polish.
I would be glad to receive any solution from you and a hint towards the cost.
Kindly help.
The key to stopping the water seeping into and from the brick joints is to stop the moisture. Although your home is sitting up higher than the plinth level, that area adjacent to your move has to be sloped at least 2% away from the home so water from the rain doesn’t drain towards the home.
If you have a high water table then when it rains the water table rises and it could be the source of the water that migrates into your brick flooring.
If you can’t stop the water from traveling towards your home, then you can dig trenches around the home and install a perforated pipe with a fabric sock surrounded with gravel. This can divert the water away from your home.
Mr. Pompo,
I live in Central Florida, in a home built in the ’50’s with terrazzo. I have water coming through the grout joints in my ceramic tile which is, of course, on top of the terrazzo flooring. I noticed a small spot in the kitchen a few months ago, and figured my children or dog spilled something. It got a little worse with additional water seepage. It is now extending to another place in kitchen and moving to under the wood laminate in the adjoining dining room. My runner in the kitchen is now soaked, but it doesn’t seem to correlate to using the kitchen sink. Underneath the sink area is dry, and I do not have a dishwasher. The spots are a few feet away from the sink. What do you recommend, and what type of company should I be looking for to come out and find the actual cause?
The fact that your tile is installed over a terrazzo floor that is typically fairly dense where water isn’t likely to readily migrate through it, and that the water seems to be migrating in the floor over time, I would guess you must have a water leak.
I would start looking at the spot where the water first showed up in the grout joint and see if there are any water sources near by. Maybe a refrigerator with a water line attached to it that might be leaking or whatever.
I would have a plumber come out to see if he can find the source. If he has a moisture meter or an infrared camera he might see the path of where the water is traveling from.
I also have radiant floor heating and some trace water (milliliters) seems to come up through tile grout. I figure the floor probably has to be pulled up (this is in the basement). Haa anyone tried using Geoloop Leak Seal? I’m wondering if it might be worth a shot.
If the floor is above grade and you have a hydronic radiant floor system, then you might have a leaking radiant tube line. If the concrete is on-grade/ground you could have some sort of hydrostatic water coming up from the ground.
I have not heard of anyone using the Geoloop Leak Seal for hydronic radiant floor leaks.
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Thanks for sharing this article to us
Hi, i live in a high rise condominium and i have just done epoxy flooring at my bathroom. A week after the epoxy flooring, i discovered the water is seeping out of my bathroom floor. im not sure whether it is due to leaking pipe or those are water previously seeping into the joint tiles and retained underneath the titles. I asked the contractor and he said this situation is common and i need to wait for 2-3 weeks for the water inside the cement to seep out thoroughly and thereafter only to do the touch up on the epoxy flooring. Is anyone having the same issue and what can i do to resolve this issue?
Your question is a little confusing. You say you installed an epoxy flooring, but then you say you have tiles. So I assume that tiles were installed and maybe you used an epoxy grout.
Cementitious products set up within 24 hours through a hydration process. So there should not be any water after 24 hours. It may retain moisture and not fully cure for 14 days or more depending on the climatic conditions.
I have constructed a house. There is an open area of 1000 sq feet on 1st floor where i installed GVT tiles. Tiles are adjacent to each other and joints are attached .Water is coming through grout and can be seen below roof on ceiling. There is no pipe leak. Kindly suggest some solution
If water is coming out of the grout joints, then the water has to be coming from somewhere. The challenge in locating leaks is that the water source can be in a different area from where you notice the water coming through the grout joints.
You said the tile is on the 1st floor, but then you say the water can be seen below the roof. So I assume the tile area is on an exterior suspended deck. If that is the case then the water can’t be coming from the ground due to a high water table or due to a hydrostatic water condition where the water is traveling from a higher location down to the lower location of the deck.
Since it is an exterior area then the question is how often does it rain or how often do you wash the tile deck. The underlying tile assembly should have a waterproof membrane and the membrane should be sloped to a drain or there should be weep holes in the drain so water that migrates through the tile grout joints has a way to evacuate through a drain of some sort.
Obviously there is a problem with the waterproof membrane under the tile or the lack of a waterproof membrane or otherwise you would not have water leaking through the ceiling below.
The only way to figure out how to fix it is to forensically intrusively investigate it with a knowledgeable expert like our company.
Hello! We built and delivered a house about 6 months ago, in the middle of the rainy season (in Ecuador we have 2 seasons, rainy and dry). The large format tiles (95 x 47 in) were installed with Mapei’s Keraflex mortar.
About 3 weeks ago, the owners discovered a small puddle of water in the kitchen coming out of the grout joint. We are 4 months into the dry season (no rain). We assumed it was a leak, but didn’t discover one. We went through the concrete and the dirt (and concrete) were completely dry. The only place were we found moisture was in betweeen the mortar and the tile.
We have found about 4 other puddles of water. They are not even that close together (some about 25-26 ft apart). We have unistalled about 4 tiles now (they are pretty expensive!), to see what goes on underneath, but it is the same: it is moist/wet between tile and mortar, and once if dries-off, it stays dry. It is also dry underneath the mortar (between mortar and concrete, and also below the concrete).
Could it be an issue with the mortar? Maybe some type of chemical reaction? OR could it be that water went inside the tiles through the grout joint when the owners moved-in and used a high pressure hose to clean the floor?
We really appreciate your response in regards to this issue.
If there is water coming through the grout joints then there has to be a source for that water. The source is either from some sort of plumbing leak or it is from the ground. If there is a high water table or a source of water from a higher location outside, it can travel under ground and create a type of hydrostatic moisture condition.
Finding the source of the water can be tricky because the source might not be anywhere near where it shows up in the grout joint. You try using an electronic moisture meter or an Infrared camera to try to see if you can follow the moisture to its source.
Really appreciate your response!
Have you ever experienced water coming from the actual mortar? As in the mortar not drying off as it should be? We have not seen any signs of moisture either in the concrete nor in the ground below.
In this case, we used a polymer-enhanced mortar.
Thanks!
It is impossible for the source of the water to come from the mortar itself. Mortar hydrates using up the water. If there is water in the mortar now, it is because it is coming from some other location. You just have to do the forensic to find that source as described above.
Thanks so much. We will keep doing the forensics!
I have been living in this home for four years now in South Florida and never have any water issues. My neighbor has a some digging done and a new AC system was installed recently. And since, I noticed water seeping through my tile grout joints on the first floor – There is also a white vinegar smelled residue staining on many of the grout lines.
Can it be damaged pipes ? Can water table on my property be high and not affecting my other neighbors ? Does that sound reasonable for a contractor to be talking about $50K repair involving digging the whole living room and new tiles ? Thanks
There are too many questions that need answered to determine what has caused the moisture seeping through the tile grout joints.
You need to know what kind of digging did the neighbor do? Did he install any trench drains and if so where was the water directed to drain away? Maybe he had a high water table condition and drained it away from him but to where?
Having a new air conditioner would cause airflow that could increase evaporation of moisture through grout joints if there is a moisture condition under the tile.
It is common when you have a moisture issue to get a white calcium building up in the grout joint where the water evaporates from. I haven’t heard of a vinegar odor. Some people will use diluted vinegar to remove the efflorescence.
If you have a water leak then look at your water meter to see if it moves when everything is off. If the leak is from a drainage pipe see if the water shows up with the shower is being used or when the washing machine or sink is being used.
The cost of replacing the tiles is based on how many square feet are invovled, what effort there is in removing the old tiles, the cost of the new tile, the cost of installing a vapor mitigation system, and the cost for installing the tile.
Doesn’t make sense to removing the whole living room concrete substrate if that is what you mean by digging it.
Before you can determine how to repair the problem you need to identify the problem so you can remediate it or avoid it during a replacement. For high water tables they can install french drains/ditches around the perimeter of the house and install sump pumps and etc.
This morning was the fourth time I found that water had seeped from a grout line in my kitchen forming a puddle about a foot in diameter. The puddle doesn’t get any larger. I have ceramic tile. This happens during the night and is happening every two or three days. What should I do first, call a plumber or hire a person who installs ceramic tile to rip up several tiles to look for the problem? I’ll appreciate your advice. Please e-mail your response. Thank you.
There are several possibilities as to the source of the water. It could be that you have a high water table and when it rises it subject’s your concrete slab to the water that creates a hydrostatic condition where water is forced up through the grout joint.
It could be when it rains the water travels down hill to your house and there again a hydrostatic conditions occurs. I have seen that when someone uses the washing machine there is a plumbing leak and then they get the water condition through their grout joints.
The solution depends on what is the water source. So you have to do a trial and error process of elimination to determine the source. You can hire a plumber leak expert who might be able to figure it out, if it is a plumbing leak. A forensic tile investigator could do it if they had the experience and qualifications like http://www.CTaSC.com. If it is water coming from the outside during a rain or a high water table you can dig french drains or sump holes to redirect the water.
Hi Donato,
Water is coming out from grout tiles at my kitchen.
it poured heavy here and the outside of my area is flooded about just a base of a shoe.
I have checked the water meter and there was no leaked.
How can i fix it? Will this be fixed?
Dan
If you are getting puddles of water coming through your grout joint, then you likely have a hydrostatic condition. That means that the water table is near the surface of the ground or that a source of water from a higher location is draining toward and under your concrete slab.
Because of the heavy rain that you had it either brought the water table up or water from a higher areas was draining down to your house.
The water puddles is a symptom of a hydro static water problem. The solution is to cut off that supply of water. You need to divert the water source and drain it away from your home.
This can be done by digging french drains around the perimeter of the house so that water draining towards the house or water rising up towards the house slab can be diverted away from the house.
You have to dig a ditch around the house at an appropriate depth relative to source of water, Install a perforated drain pipe, with a pipe sock over it to keep growth from going into the pipe, into the ditch. Then put gravel in the ditch so it is surrounding the pipe to facilitate water to drain to the pipe and to prevent dirt from getting in the ditch to plug the pipe perforations.
In some cases you may want to line the ditch with polyethylene sheeting to keep the water draining to the pipe from migrating towards the house, but that depends on where the source of water is coming from.
Most of the grout/moisture issues are probably osmotic rather than hydrostatic, either way its obviously a problem for slab on grade construction in Florida where the under slab moisture barrier is more often than not compromised by poor installation.
I agree that due to the lack of or the improper installation of a vapor retarder under concrete slabs that should continue up the concrete footings is responsible for moisture issues with tile grout.
If the ground water is a positive pressure against the vapor retarder under the concrete slab, then the moisture cannot intrude and migrate through the concrete slab and up through the floor surface where the moisture is driven through evaporation.
I agree that the grout moisture issue is less likely a hydrostatic water pressure caused by a high water table that rises during rain storms or if there is a water source traveling from a higher elevation down beneath the concrete slab.
The water migrating into the concrete slab isn’t through osmosis, which would require a membrane to pass through to equalize the respective concentrations. The water intrusion is simply traveling by diffusion driven my the evaporation occurring at the grout surface.
Hello and thanks for the great advice.
Installed 36×36 exterior porcelain on 15×20 ft concrete terrace which concrete substrate was sealed by spraying a sealer 3 times and seemed to work as water did not penetrate concrete.
But the installers messed up and did just a little slope and will have some water pulling, Even though it does not rain much here, the terrace is north facing and doesn’t get much sun in winter.
Here is the other problem besides the sloping problem, after installing it rained and water is under tiles or by open joints. So i want to grout with epoxy to waterproof joints, but would like to dry as much as possible the under layer of tiles. Any ideas please. Thank you very much.
First of all you should not have applied a sealer to the concrete substrate. Sealers are bond breakers so you will inhibit the ability of the tile to bond to the concrete so some degree as you will not achieve a mechanical attachment by have the thinset penetrate into the concrete surface. If you used a high strength thinset mortar meeting ANSI A118.15 it might allow the thinset to bond to the sealed concrete to some degree.
Assuming the tiles are adequately bonded, you shouldn’t grout with the epoxy grout until the grout joints are dry or you will trap moisture that can lead to other problems.
Hi all, there is an issue with my home being on a high water table everytime it rains there is water that comes up through the tiled kitchen floor grout. I am wondering if I should have the entire floor including the tiles covered in an Epoxy floor water sealer and will that stop water from coming up through the tiles? Any help in this area would be greatly appreciated.
Epoxy coatings do not do well over where there is high moisture in terms of a finish surface. If you were going to tile over your existing tile, or remove the tile to re-install tile, then there are epoxy moisture mitigation products that can withstand high relative humidity in terms of moisture.
What you have is a hydrostatic moisture problem. That means water from the water table is exerting a force so depending on the degree of the force most products can’t mitigate hydrostatic moisture at the positive side.
What you have to do is dig trench drains around your house with perforated drainage pipes in gravel to have the water drain away from the house. In some cases you have to have sump pumps installed in a way to keep the water away.
Hello,
I have noticed a small amount of wetness and white crystalization on the grout in my kitchen. It is about 2 inches long- always wet. I do not notice it related to using sink or dishwasher. It has not been raining at all recently and I have lived in this house for 2 years (through hurricanes and tropical storms in which this never happened.)
any ideas? Wouldn’t a high water table have showed itself before now?
Hard to say where it is coming from. The white crystallization is likely efflorescence staining from minerals being precipitated as the moisture evaporates.
I assume the grout is a porous cementitious grout. Normally water would wick along the grout joint from the central wet spot. The only reason I could think why it is only 2″ long is that maybe there is a void under that spot where water is collecting. The only way to determine that is to remove the grout in that spot and follow it down until you can see further evidence of it source.
Hi there,
I have an outdoor staircase leading to the roof from the second floor of my home. This staircase and small landing are situated above the lower level of the home. This week it has been raining a tremendous amount for my area (west coast), and water is leaking into the lower level from the staircase. We caulked along the stairs where they meet the outer wall of the home which has significantly decreased the leak, but there is still one area that is intermittently dripping water into the home.
The stairs are black tile, and in the 1.5 years we’ve lived in the home (newly remodeled when we bought it) there are multiple areas that have developed white streaks on tile on the front of the stairs.
I don’t even know where to start with repairs or who to call. I’m wondering what your thoughts are. It sounds like the tile was not appropriately waterproofed when it was installed and the entire thing will need to be removed and re-done.
Thanks in advance for your help!
Apparently the tile landing was not properly waterproofed before they installed the tile. They should have had a 1/4″ per foot slope on the landing away from the house. The landing should have been waterproofed and the waterproofing should have flashed up the side of the house where it abuts. The transition joint at the membrane and at the tile should have been caulked with an ASTM C920 caulking to seal that joint and to mitigate movement at that joint.
That doesn’t explain how it is getting into the house. There must be penetrations on the exterior wall where the water can travel to and inside the house. You need to find that and seal it.
The white streaks is probably efflorescence because of mineral migration from under the tile. You probably do not have a waterproof membrane under the tile to minimize or prevent the efflorescence.
You have to do the investigation. Don’t be fooled by treating the symptom of the problem rather than identifying the problem and fixing it.